What's new competitive-wise in Ultra Sun/Moon?

[Marc]

I skipped the ultra games

For a competitive player such as myself, what's everything I need to know that's new so I can prepare for the Pokemon 2019 game that's coming to the Nintendo Switch?

Like a list of new Pokemon, new competitive items, etc..

Anything that I NEED to know?

 

[coolflare]

There are new mons in the game (which can change the meta a lot). Like for example, Blacelphalon made Chandelure irrelevant to the meta now, since it does what it can but better.

I’m not gonna specify here too much on mons unless you want the spoilers but most of the new ones are very good additions to the competitive scene.

As for items, I think only items that are exclusive to the new mons and more Z crystals are new. Not %100 on this but correct me if I’m wrong.

I play mainly on showdown competitively now (since SuMo on cartridge is irrelevant now ) so I don’t remember the differences exactly.

 

[luigiFTW]

Most likely the 2019 release will not have the same things ultra has. They still will probably change up the formula.

 

[Zukrad]

All of the new mons are either irrelevant (or borderline irrelevant) or broken (Namely, Naganadel and Ultra Necrozma)

Probably the biggest change was the addition of Defog as a Tutor move, making mons like Gliscor and Tornadus much better, Toxapex got Knock Off, making it even more annoying

Heatran is imo the best Pokemon right now, the only competition to that spot is Lando-T. Clef is an obvious third best

Megas are not as mandatory as in ORAS/mid SUMO, meaning that more no mega teams work well. This also increased the viability of the Mega Latis and Mega Ttar by a lot

The meta is very balance oriented rn, with HO being hard to pull off and Stall is not as effective


Among other meta changes:
Gastrodon is super common now, getting the same usage boost that Tangrowth got in late ORAS
The same is for Reuniclus, but not as extreme.
Shedinja became ok again despite the lack of BP.
Mimikyu fell off.
Tapu Bulu has a bulky horn leech set that is killing it:

Spoiler: Bulu Set

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 224 HP / 216 SpD / 68 Spe
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Synthesis

Rotom is kind of ok but not really
People figured out how to beat Hawlucha
Mega Alakazam runs Modest now and became lit
Edit: Forgot to mention this, but Kartana became godly (topped at S-), but thinks calmed recently (iirc, Kart is sitting in ~A+)

VGC related:
Chansey made the game not fun to play, that is the best way to summarize it. Also, Incineroar is like Lando-T, but with Fake Out

 

[coolflare]

All of the new mons are either irrelevant (or borderline irrelevant) or broken (Namely, Naganadel and Ultra Necrozma)

Umm... Blacelphalon replaces Chandelure, giving it a spot in the meta but not by much. Stakatacka’s x4 ground weakness cripples it and makes him almost unusable in singles but in doubles, he’s scary in TR. Nagnadel is broke and Ultra Necrozma was going to be in Uber reguardless, mainly cause of total base stat number.

And I don’t think Zeraora was released yet.

 

[Zukrad]

Umm... Blacelphalon replaces Chandelure, giving it a spot in the meta but not by much. Stakatacka’s x4 ground weakness cripples it and makes him almost unusable in singles but in doubles, he’s scary in TR. Nagnadel is broke and Ultra Necrozma was going to be in Uber reguardless, mainly cause of total base stat number.

And I don’t think Zeraora was released yet.

Replacing Chandelure isn't that much of an achievement. Both aren't really good. Chandelure is unviable and Blac is struggling to even be ranked.

And Zeraora also was released, I forgot... He ain't so good. UU probably

 

[coolflare]

Replacing Chandelure isn't that much of an achievement. Both aren't really good. Chandelure is unviable and Blac is struggling to even be ranked.

And Zeraora also was released, I forgot... He ain't so good. UU probably

Chandelure was pretty much anti-meta material. It was able to counter popular playstyles for a long time and Blacelphalon can do the same but better. But since counters to them are also relatively common. And we aren’t talking about B/W. The UsUm meta is very different than that of B/W. Blacelphalon is solid as a revenge killer/wallbreaker but the former is much more useful, although overshadowed by some better mons.

 

[Zukrad]

Chandelure was pretty much anti-meta material. It was able to counter popular playstyles for a long time ago and Blacelphalon can do the same but better.

Fixed

Blace (And Chand) used to be good... when there was a meta that benefited them:

• Now Ttar (&Mega) is everywhere, and it just switches in and clicks a move
• Lando and Tran are a threat as always. Blace only beat Lando if Blace is specs and outspeeds Lando. Against Tran is a 50/50. Not exactly the worse mu ever, but far from being antimeta if it struggles against the two most used mons in the meta
• Kartana is huge rn, and they can only beat it they click a fire move when Kart is switching in (bad play by the Kart player), in a 1v1 situation, Kart kills it with Knock Off (or +2 Leaf Blade), and Blace can't switch in despite having a very good defensive type against it. Your best bet is hope your opponent predicts the switch and goes for Leaf Blade, and even then, LB can kill Blace after rocks
• Gren kills it. Ash-Gren uses it as transformation fodder. It barely switches in tho, but is not like it needs HP
• Koko kills it
• Tornadus kills it and can take a hit from any non specs Blace and regen out
• Toxapex takes 47% max from a specs shadow ball
• Zygarde sets up on it and 6-0s you
• The Mega Latis are a weird matchup. Specs kills both with Shadow Ball, but if it is locked into anything else the Latis set up on him. And you don't want to face a Mega Lati with a free turn
• Blace kind of beats Clef and destroys Ferro so I give it that

Those are the most relevants mons rn, while there are more mons commonly used, those I just gave you are the most meta, and blace can't really beat them. Blace can't switch in against them, and if it somehow gets a free switch, it can't do much unless is scarfed, which lets it beat Kartana and a weakened Koko, but makes it lose harder against everything else.

Chand and Blace were antimeta when Char Y was relevant, when Scizor used to be the best mega, when Celesteela and Magnezone where everywhere, when Magearna was S tier, when Stall was really good, when Arena Trap was unbanned, and when Volcarona was this close to being suspect tested.

But now, the meta has changed a lot and both Chandelure and Blacephalon have lost their niche as antimeta mons. And now they are barely viable.

TL;DR: Sain is the best fire emblem character. Also Blace is bad

 

[coolflare]

Fixed

Blace (And Chand) used to be good... when there was a meta that benefited them:

• Now Ttar (&Mega) is everywhere, and it just switches in and clicks a move
• Lando and Tran are a threat as always. Blace only beat Lando if Blace is specs and outspeeds Lando. Against Tran is a 50/50. Not exactly the worse mu ever, but far from being antimeta if it struggles against the two most used mons in the meta
• Kartana is huge rn, and they can only beat it they click a fire move when Kart is switching in (bad play by the Kart player), in a 1v1 situation, Kart kills it with Knock Off (or +2 Leaf Blade), and Blace can't switch in despite having a very good defensive type against it. Your best bet is hope your opponent predicts the switch and goes for Leaf Blade, and even then, LB can kill Blace after rocks
• Gren kills it. Ash-Gren uses it as transformation fodder. It barely switches in tho, but is not like it needs HP
• Koko kills it
• Tornadus kills it and can take a hit from any non specs Blace and regen out
• Toxapex takes 47% max from a specs shadow ball
• Zygarde sets up on it and 6-0s you
• The Mega Latis are a weird matchup. Specs kills both with Shadow Ball, but if it is locked into anything else the Latis set up on him. And you don't want to face a Mega Lati with a free turn
• Blace kind of beats Clef and destroys Ferro so I give it that

Those are the most relevants mons rn, while there are more mons commonly used, those I just gave you are the most meta, and blace can't really beat them. Blace can't switch in against them, and if it somehow gets a free switch, it can't do much unless is scarfed, which lets it beat Kartana and a weakened Koko, but makes it lose harder against everything else.

Chand and Blace were antimeta when Char Y was relevant, when Scizor used to be the best mega, when Celesteela and Magnezone where everywhere, when Magearna was S tier, when Stall was really good, when Arena Trap was unbanned, and when Volcarona was this close to being suspect tested.

But now, the meta has changed a lot and both Chandelure and Blacephalon have lost their niche as antimeta mons. And now they are barely viable.

TL;DR: Sain is the best fire emblem character. Also Blace is bad

Ttar sees more use now. Neat. Thanks for filling me in on the meta. I haven’t playing in showdown seriously for a while. I can see now how Blacelphalon struggles now in the meta. It still hits very hard, Choice Scarf or not but from the sounds of it, doesn’t amount to much with all the checks to him.

Now in doubles, I say he isn’t outstanding but in a much better spot in singles. His speed tier, coupled with his Special Attack stat and his ability, it isn’t hard to snowball with him. Of course, there are mons that have Beast Boost, can snowball and are better than Blacelphalon but having partners that can counter his threats can make him shine much brighter. Of course, although it sounds very situational, if you’re familiar with how doubles is played, a Blace Protect and the partner Mom switch play works just fine. I feel that Blace and M.Gengar is a dangerous pair, since M.Gengar can dictate matchups to his, as well as his partner’s favor, which helps Blace a lot. Although Lando-T’s are everywhere, a good DOU team will always have an answer to him.

I’m much more familiar with DOU compared to OU, which explains why I’m not 100% knowledgeable with the OU meta now.

 

[Mr. Kream]

All of the new mons are either irrelevant (or borderline irrelevant) or broken (Namely, Naganadel and Ultra Necrozma)

Probably the biggest change was the addition of Defog as a Tutor move, making mons like Gliscor and Tornadus much better, Toxapex got Knock Off, making it even more annoying

Heatran is imo the best Pokemon right now, the only competition to that spot is Lando-T. Clef is an obvious third best

Megas are not as mandatory as in ORAS/mid SUMO, meaning that more no mega teams work well. This also increased the viability of the Mega Latis and Mega Ttar by a lot

The meta is very balance oriented rn, with HO being hard to pull off and Stall is not as effective


Among other meta changes:
Gastrodon is super common now, getting the same usage boost that Tangrowth got in late ORAS
The same is for Reuniclus, but not as extreme.
Shedinja became ok again despite the lack of BP.
Mimikyu fell off.
Tapu Bulu has a bulky horn leech set that is killing it:

Spoiler: Bulu Set

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 224 HP / 216 SpD / 68 Spe
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Synthesis

Rotom is kind of ok but not really
People figured out how to beat Hawlucha
Mega Alakazam runs Modest now and became lit

VGC related:
Chansey made the game not fun to play, that is the best way to summarize it. Also, Incineroar is like Lando-T, but with Fake Out

This comment is like someone's sitting on a beach reminiscing about the good ol times, but his analyses are spot on. These sum it up pretty well, too:

P. S. Dies anyone have a current place for usage stats? I've been unable to find them recently.

 

[Zukrad]

This comment is like someone's sitting on a beach reminiscing about the good ol times, but his analyses are spot on. These sum it up pretty well, too:

P. S. Dies anyone have a current place for usage stats? I've been unable to find them recently.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/

Now in doubles

Ok that explains the discrepancy. I am barely interested in DOU, and often only try VGC until it bores me out, so I have no idea on how good are mons in doubles outside of gen 7 Snorlax getting advice from gen 2 on how to become god

 

[Mr. Kream]

https://www.smogon.com/stats/




Ok that explains the discrepancy. I am barely interested in DOU, and often only try VGC until it bores me out, so I have no idea on how good are mons in doubles outside of gen 7 Snorlax getting advice from gen 2 on how to become god

Thanks, so much, the SD bot I used to use to access that link has been offline for about three or more months, and building teams w/o it has been a bit like walking in the dark; I can play and win, but it's pointless w/o planning.