RMT / Team Help A generic Sun team (Double Battles)

[3905]

Ninetales @Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Nature: Modest/Calm
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Spe.
-Fire Blast
-Calm Mind
-Energy Ball
-Dark Pulse/Extrasensory

Ninetales is used for setting up the sun and doing massive damage to other pokemon. With high sp def stats, plus power from the sun, a Modest or Calm Nature would work best, because it also allowed Ninetales to use Calm Mind more effectively. Fire Blast is probably the strongest STAB move you can get with Ninetales, Energy Ball checks Water, Rock, and Ground types which are all of Ninetales's weaknesses. The last slot could be used for Dark Pulse or Extrasensory as another attacking option.

Espeon @Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
Nature: Modest/Timid
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spe., 4 Sp. Def
-Calm Mind
-Psychic/Psyshock
-Dazzing Gleam
-Morning Sun
Espeon is a great pokemon to have for Magic Bounce. It has a great Speed and Sp atk stat, with a good Sp def stat as well, so Modest or Timid nature works well with it. Life Orb lets Espeon deal a lot of damage to opposing Pokemon. Calm Mind boosts the power of Espeon's moves and raises Sp. Def. Psychic and Psyshock serve as two great STAB options Espeon has, Dazzling Gleam serves as a check to Dark Types, and Morning Sun lets Espeon regain a lot of HP from the sunlight.

Solrock @Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 Def, 144 Sp. Atk., 112 HP
-Fire Blast
-SolarBeam
-Earth Power
-Will-O-Wisp
Solrock has a great Defense stat, and in the Sun it can land Fire Blasts with 100% Accuracy and use SolarBeam without having to charge it. Levitate is great as it no longer suffers a weakness to Ground types. Leftovers allow Solrock to regain health which helps with its physical bulk. Solrock is great for using Will O Wisp and check Steel Types with Earth Power.

Charizard @Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze (becomes Tough Claws)
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk., 252 Def., 4 HP
-Dragon Dance
-Flare Blitz
-Outrage
-Rock Slide

Meganium @Light Clay
Ability: Leaf Guard
Nature: Careful/Impish
EVs: 252 Def. 252 Sp. Def, 4 Atk.
-Petal Blizzard
-Synthesis
-Reflect/Light Screen
-Earthquake
Meganium is probably something you've rarely heard of. But it turns out that Meganium actually works out pretty well in the sun, thanks to its Hidden Ability Leaf Guard. Leaf Guard prevents Meganium from getting any bad Status Effects while there is sunlight. Another great thing Meganium can do is set up Light Screen and Reflect, with Light Clay allowing these screens to last for long periods of time. With base 100 stats in both Defense and Sp. Defense, Meganium is able to tank hits pretty good, and with base 82 Attack lets it use Petal Blizzard for STAB effectively, and Earthquake as a check for Fire, Poison, and Ice types as well. And in the Sun Synthesis heals Meganium greatly, allowing it to stay around for a while.

Cherrim @Leftovers
Ability: Flower Gift
Nature: Adamant/Careful
EVs: 252 Atk., 252 Sp. Def., 4 Def
-Morning Sun
-Leech Seed
-Seed Bomb
-Toxic
Cherrim shines in the sunlight, revealing it's Sunshine Forme. Cherrim's ability Flower Gift gives a 1.5× boost to Attack and Special Defense stats not only for itself, but also for it's teammates too. Cherrim can trap Pokemon in the sun, giving them a hard time with Leech Seed and Toxic. Morning Sun lets Cherrim get healing benefits from the Sunny weather as well, and Seed Bomb serves as it's most optimal STAB move.

I think a few adjustments could be made here and there, but overall I think this is a pretty decent team. If you think there are any improvements that could be made please share by all means, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jamesnail12]

Ninetales @Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Nature: Modest/Calm
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Spe.
-Fire Blast
-Calm Mind
-Energy Ball
-Dark Pulse/Extrasensory

Ninetales is used for setting up the sun and doing massive damage to other pokemon. With high sp def stats, plus power from the sun, a Modest or Calm Nature would work best, because it also allowed Ninetales to use Calm Mind more effectively. Fire Blast is probably the strongest STAB move you can get with Ninetales, Energy Ball checks Water, Rock, and Ground types which are all of Ninetales's weaknesses. The last slot could be used for Dark Pulse or Extrasensory as another attacking option.

Espeon @Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
Nature: Modest/Timid
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spe., 4 Sp. Def
-Calm Mind
-Psychic/Psyshock
-Dazzing Gleam
-Morning Sun
Espeon is a great pokemon to have for Magic Bounce. It has a great Speed and Sp atk stat, with a good Sp def stat as well, so Modest or Timid nature works well with it. Life Orb lets Espeon deal a lot of damage to opposing Pokemon. Calm Mind boosts the power of Espeon's moves and raises Sp. Def. Psychic and Psyshock serve as two great STAB options Espeon has, Dazzling Gleam serves as a check to Dark Types, and Morning Sun lets Espeon regain a lot of HP from the sunlight.

Solrock @Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 Def, 144 Sp. Atk., 112 HP
-Fire Blast
-SolarBeam
-Earth Power
-Will-O-Wisp
Solrock has a great Defense stat, and in the Sun it can land Fire Blasts with 100% Accuracy and use SolarBeam without having to charge it. Levitate is great as it no longer suffers a weakness to Ground types. Leftovers allow Solrock to regain health which helps with its physical bulk. Solrock is great for using Will O Wisp and check Steel Types with Earth Power.

Charizard @Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze (becomes Tough Claws)
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk., 252 Def., 4 HP
-Dragon Dance
-Flare Blitz
-Outrage
-Rock Slide

Meganium @Light Clay
Ability: Leaf Guard
Nature: Careful/Impish
EVs: 252 Def. 252 Sp. Def, 4 Atk.
-Petal Blizzard
-Synthesis
-Reflect/Light Screen
-Earthquake
Meganium is probably something you've rarely heard of. But it turns out that Meganium actually works out pretty well in the sun, thanks to its Hidden Ability Leaf Guard. Leaf Guard prevents Meganium from getting any bad Status Effects while there is sunlight. Another great thing Meganium can do is set up Light Screen and Reflect, with Light Clay allowing these screens to last for long periods of time. With base 100 stats in both Defense and Sp. Defense, Meganium is able to tank hits pretty good, and with base 82 Attack lets it use Petal Blizzard for STAB effectively, and Earthquake as a check for Fire, Poison, and Ice types as well. And in the Sun Synthesis heals Meganium greatly, allowing it to stay around for a while.

Cherrim @Leftovers
Ability: Flower Gift
Nature: Adamant/Careful
EVs: 252 Atk., 252 Sp. Def., 4 Def
-Morning Sun
-Leech Seed
-Seed Bomb
-Toxic
Cherrim shines in the sunlight, revealing it's Sunshine Forme. Cherrim's ability Flower Gift gives a 1.5× boost to Attack and Special Defense stats not only for itself, but also for it's teammates too. Cherrim can trap Pokemon in the sun, giving them a hard time with Leech Seed and Toxic. Morning Sun lets Cherrim get healing benefits from the Sunny weather as well, and Seed Bomb serves as it's most optimal STAB move.

I think a few adjustments could be made here and there, but overall I think this is a pretty decent team. If you think there are any improvements that could be made please share by all means, it would be greatly appreciated.

Wow, this is....interesting. Using Espeon on a sun team REALLY caught me off guard, as you usually see Espeon as a frail sweeper on Psychic/other really weird teams. I can see how Espeon could be used in the sun, but otherwise this is an interesting but pretty legit team.

 

[3905]

Wow, this is....interesting. Using Espeon on a sun team REALLY caught me off guard, as you usually see Espeon as a frail sweeper on Psychic/other really weird teams. I can see how Espeon could be used in the sun, but otherwise this is an interesting but pretty legit team.

Well espeon is known to be the Sun Pokemon for a reason =p
And thanks! At least I know I'm doing something right!

 

[Gary Johnson]

If ninetales is the only pokemon that has drought what if it runs out. Also an Arcanine with 252 speed can outspeed Charizard and with Outrage it can kill Charizard X. Flare blitz can take of Meganium and Cherrim. Arcanine can also deal good damage against Solrock and Espeon. I'm assuming Arcanine kiled 2 pokemon. Then garchomp can have crunch and deal good damage against Espeon and kill Charizard. (I think I sounded professional or I sounded like a noob)

 

[3905]

If ninetales is the only pokemon that has drought what if it runs out. Also an Arcanine with 252 speed can outspeed Charizard and with Outrage it can kill Charizard X. Flare blitz can take of Meganium and Cherrim. Arcanine can also deal good damage against Solrock and Espeon. I'm assuming Arcanine kiled 2 pokemon. Then garchomp can have crunch and deal good damage against Espeon and kill Charizard. (I think I sounded professional or I sounded like a noob)

If the drought is gone then at least Espeon and Charizard will do well without it. Arcanine can 2HKO Charizard X, but if I have Meganium set up reflect, and if Charizard gets a Dragon Dance off then that won't be any problem! Plus after one Dragon Dance Charizard should be able to outspeed and even kill Arcanine with EQ or Rock Slide. As for Meganium, base 100 Def, with max EVs and a reflect will probably allow it to tank 1 Flare Blitz, but I can safely switch into Solrock who can body the hit and use something Super Effective like Earth Power to take out the threat. And Cherrim should be fine with the Flower Gift + Reflect/Light Screen boost, allowing it to get a Leech Seed off, which gives it passive recovery with Leftovers. As far as Garchomp is concerned, Charizard can take it out with one Dragon Dance boosted Outrage, and Espeon can do one Calm Mind boosted Dazzling Gleam to deal with that. It's true that an all out amazing Sun Team is hard to create since only few Pokemon reap the benefits of the sun, but hey as long as there isn't some giant prolonging threat to half the team I think it's fine.

 

[Zukrad]

(Is late at night, so Im going to be quick)

Having only one sun setter in a team that depends on it is a really bad idea, actually, having a team that depends completely on a certain weather is a bad idea unless you have absolutely everyone with sometthing to set weather, which is not a good idea by itself

That's why I recomend using Zard-Y over Zard-X, another sun setter is very helpful

Other changes

What is the point of Meganium?
-Your team is really offensive, having a Passive mon like Meganium kills a lot of momentum, which is crucial in doubles
-Passive mons (and playstyles) in doubles are awful. That's why you never see Stall, Semi stall and even Balance being succesful in doubles, the don't work.

That's why I reccomend you using Venusaur over Meg, access to decent bulk, +2 Speed in Sun, good movepool, recovery and Sleep Powder (in this meta, making asleep one of your opponent's Pokémon is priceless)

Solrock...

from all the mons

from all the 720 Pokémon avaliable right now, you choose this thing...
Having acces to Solarbeam and Fire Blast is something that a lot of other Pokémon already do (like pretty much, every fire type, while also having STAB), there are so many alternatives over Solrock

Cherrim
This thing looks good on paper, but is to Weather dependant...
If you want to use it, go ahead, I don't really recomend it tho
but use this spread

Cherrim (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Gift
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Protect
- Helping Hand
- Energy Ball
- Leech Seed

Is it late, so I can't spend too much in the computer, but a few more changes

Protect
If at least 4-6 Pokémon don't have protect in a doubles, there is something wrong.
Protect is, by far the BEST move in dobles

Avoid passive play, the only moves "Passives" that are used in doubles are Leech Seed (constant recovery), W-o-W (halves attack), paralisis (1/4 speed) and sleep

Set-Up: Don't use Pokémon setting up, in doubles, a Calm Mind is a free turn for your opponent, and free turns hurts a lot more than in singles (since the opponent has 2 mons active). There is a little amount of Pokemn that actually set up in doubles (Like SD Excadrill)

Good teams always have some way to handle opposing weather, sometimes using their own weather, and your team has nothing against them, your best bet against a Rain Team is a Cherubi... A CHERUBI

To solve this you have two options:
-Everyone can set up sun (not reccomended, at all)
-Make the team much less sun based team (Pretty much changing Ninetales, Solrock and Cherrim for other Pokémon that work well both outside and in sun, ussualy checking other weathers)

Also, Espeon, there are a lot of things that do Espeon's job better

Much slower, but much more defensive, one of the few viable CM users, and it can also set up sun

Same Speed and SpAtk, but better Typing, STAB, bulk, give you an answer to EQ (You get sweeped by Scarf Lando, the only things that doesn't get OHKOed are Mega and Cherrim, both of which can be destroyed by the second mon) takes Rock Slides better, access to Tailwind and checks water types (perfect against rain teams)

Faster, Stronger, and with magic guard, give him a Focus Sash and you have a 100x better Espeon

If you are playing in a format where Depxys Attack is usable, use it, much better than all of the three above

 

[3905]

^Needed that.

I wasn't used to handling a weather team so this is only my first try ^^

 

[Gary Johnson]

^Needed that.

I wasn't used to handling a weather team so this is only my first try ^^

Beware of stealth rocks

 

[3905]

Beware of stealth rocks

That was the purpose of Espeon originally. Magic Bounce the Stealth Rocks back, and for the amazing Special Attack.

 

[Mr. Kream]

I haven't come to the threads for a little while, so I hope you don't have any problems with me leaving a tip and no criticisms...

It seems pretty obvious that you put a good deal of thought into this, N, so I just wanted to say, "it's dangerous to go alone, take this:"
https://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/

This is a damage calculator. It's easy to see that you planned for all the checks that you could think of on your own and how to handle them. Next time you plan a team, or even in your editing of this one, use it. Instead of assuming that you can handle certain things, like when Zaaeeh brought up Arcanine, toss your Pokemon's build in this and calculate whether or not you can really stand up to what's threatening you.

It's pre-loaded with common builds so rock out, and have fun, yo.

Actually, I do have three criticisms for you:

1. Speed priority is very important, don't neglect it.

2. I feel your Charizard X build is very inefficient, but it works very similarly to my own, so borrow it, and test it out, I think it might suit you, despite being better suited to singles.

Spoiler: Charon

Charon (Charizard-Mega-X) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 180 HP / 164 Def / 164 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Roost

I play Charon in my sun team, which is a very burn-heavy team. When playing him, I often plan to bring him in on a burned opponent and get two DD's off, after which he can handle most foes with one Dragon Claw. I rarely am forced to use Flare Blitz when playing him, so he conserves his health very well with the given bulk.

This is your Charizard in the calculator I listed versus a Jolly Scarfed Landorus-T. It has much more attack power than mine, but it's significantly slower and a lot less bulky, despite having more defensive investment. At 1 DD, Lando still outspeeds you by a lot, and with the given EV's has roughly 20% of a chance to one-shot you.

This one is Charon versus the same Lando build. Because of the health investment, he can survive two of Lando's EQ's and if he's been burned, 3. Because he can survive, he can definitely get off a DD, after which he outspeeds, and if rocks are in place, or if he's been burned, or both, there's a high chance Charon can take him out with one Flare Blitz after his one DD (69.9 - 82.7%) and continue the fight.

Note: None of these calculations assume an Adamant Lando, but even then, Charon still has just over a 60% chance of surviving it's EQ, and if burned, will beyond any doubt survive.

I hope you see the worth of these calculations.

Also, while Rock Slide is a valid choice, be it taste or necessity, Outrage is a bad choice for him because he is your Mega. If your Charizard gets into a place where it needs to get out, you want it to get out. You don't want to create a situation where your Mega Char-X is trapped, can't get out, and may possibly die, due to a single bad choice; run Dragon Claw. Dragon Rush, too, might seem appealing for its power, but you'd find that it will miss at the most crucial moments, so don't waste any time with anything else, use Dragon Claw on your Charizard X; It is enough.

3. Next time you post a team, don't call it generic; this is anything but, and you put some effort into it, so good or bad, present it proudly.

Mr. Kream and Charon are pleased .​

 

[3905]

I haven't come to the threads for a little while, so I hope you don't have any problems with me leaving a tip and no criticisms...

It seems pretty obvious that you put a good deal of thought into this, N, so I just wanted to say, "it's dangerous to go alone, take this:"
https://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/

This is a damage calculator. It's easy to see that you planned for all the checks that you could think of on your own and how to handle them. Next time you plan a team, or even in your editing of this one, use it. Instead of assuming that you can handle certain things, like when Zaaeeh brought up Arcanine, toss your Pokemon's build in this and calculate whether or not you can really stand up to what's threatening you.

It's pre-loaded with common builds so rock out, and have fun, yo.

Actually, I do have three criticisms for you:

1. Speed priority is very important, don't neglect it.

2. I feel your Charizard X build is very inefficient, but it works very similarly to my own, so borrow it, and test it out, I think it might suit you, despite being better suited to singles.

Spoiler: Charon

Charon (Charizard-Mega-X) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 180 HP / 164 Def / 164 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Roost

I play Charon in my sun team, which is a very burn-heavy team. When playing him, I often plan to bring him in on a burned opponent and get two DD's off, after which he can handle most foes with one Dragon Claw. I rarely am forced to use Flare Blitz when playing him, so he conserves his health very well with the given bulk.

This is your Charizard in the calculator I listed versus a Jolly Scarfed Landorus-T. It has much more attack power than mine, but it's significantly slower and a lot less bulky, despite having more defensive investment. At 1 DD, Lando still outspeeds you by a lot, and with the given EV's has roughly 20% of a chance to one-shot you.

This one is Charon versus the same Lando build. Because of the health investment, he can survive two of Lando's EQ's and if he's been burned, 3. Because he can survive, he can definitely get off a DD, after which he outspeeds, and if rocks are in place, or if he's been burned, or both, there's a high chance Charon can take him out with one Flare Blitz after his one DD (69.9 - 82.7%) and continue the fight.

Note: None of these calculations assume an Adamant Lando, but even then, Charon still has just over a 60% chance of surviving it's EQ, and if burned, will beyond any doubt survive.

I hope you see the worth of these calculations.

Also, while Rock Slide is a valid choice, be it taste or necessity, Outrage is a bad choice for him because he is your Mega. If your Charizard gets into a place where it needs to get out, you want it to get out. You don't want to create a situation where your Mega Char-X is trapped, can't get out, and may possibly die, due to a single bad choice; run Dragon Claw. Dragon Rush, too, might seem appealing for its power, but you'd find that it will miss at the most crucial moments, so don't waste any time with anything else, use Dragon Claw on your Charizard X; It is enough.

3. Next time you post a team, don't call it generic; this is anything but, and you put some effort into it, so good or bad, present it proudly.

Mr. Kream and Charon are pleased .​

I see. I'm not sure what I should be thinking of when I teambuild, and this was mostly me trying to make a team and see if other people can help me make it work.

 

[Mr. Kream]

I see. I'm not sure what I should be thinking of when I teambuild, and this was mostly me trying to make a team and see if other people can help me make it work.

I know, your EV placement suggests that. You made decent theories about what these Pokemon might be good at, and you based your EV's around what you thought would work. That's excellent in itself as far as team building goes, but I think it'd be very beneficial to you to see other common builds and how people usually do their spreads. With your thinking as it is, you'll probably have a very good idea on how to decide what your teams actually need later on, and will likely build a lot of your own custom builds. Use the calculator to test your theories; when you're using it, be watchful of the common builds, learn them, notice the trends in the stats if you can (and you will), and consider why the chosen moves are what they are. Do that and I guarantee you that you'll learn fast(er).

Serebii has a Pokemon of the Week (http://www.serebii.net/potw-xy/) that they do. I've read it most of every week since 2006, if you don't already, start doing so. Also, look at Smogon sets, too, a lot of the ones on the main page for a Pokemon listing are a bit too generic for practical use, but look at them anyway, so you understand what the Pokemon is good for. The true gold there is in the VGC sets that they list, look at those and know how they work. Learn how other people play and build, because I think it'll make you a lot better.

That said, do know that in telling you this, I'm not suggesting anything against building your own sets and doing what you think will work; that's what you should be doing. That's best way to play the game if you want any hope of enjoying it.

The real reason I'm telling you this is because when I read your post, I laughed, N, I laughed a lot... It's not because it's bad, or because there are so many things wrong with it, but because I do parkour in my free time, and reading this made me feel like you're standing on a ledge and you really just need to be pushed off.

This is me pushing you off, so fall, N, FALL!

​

 

[3905]

I know, your EV placement suggests that. You made decent theories about what these Pokemon might be good at, and you based your EV's around what you thought would work. That's excellent in itself as far as team building goes, but I think it'd be very beneficial to you to see other common builds and how people usually do their spreads. With your thinking as it is, you'll probably have a very good idea on how to decide what your teams actually need later on, and will likely build a lot of your own custom builds. Use the calculator to test your theories; when you're using it, be watchful of the common builds, learn them, notice the trends in the stats if you can (and you will), and consider why the chosen moves are what they are. Do that and I guarantee you that you'll learn fast(er).

Serebii has a Pokemon of the Week (http://www.serebii.net/potw-xy/) that they do. I've read it most of every week since 2006, if you don't already, start doing so. Also, look at Smogon sets, too, a lot of the ones on the main page for a Pokemon listing are a bit too generic for practical use, but look at them anyway, so you understand what the Pokemon is good for. The true gold there is in the VGC sets that they list, look at those and know how they work. Learn how other people play and build, because I think it'll make you a lot better.

That said, do know that in telling you this, I'm not suggesting anything against building your own sets and doing what you think will work; that's what you should be doing. That's best way to play the game if you want any hope of enjoying it.

The real reason I'm telling you this is because when I read your post, I laughed, N, I laughed a lot... It's not because it's bad, or because there are so many things wrong with it, but because I do parkour in my free time, and reading this made me feel like you're standing on a ledge and you really just need to be pushed off.

This is me pushing you off, so fall, N, FALL!

​

Uhhh thanks?

 

[Mr. Kream]

Uhhh thanks?

Falling is freedom, I just hope you get it.​

 

[3905]

Falling is freedom, I just hope you get it.​

But like, now that I'm "free" where do I start .-.

 

[Mr. Kream]

Start with the team you've presented to us and try again.

The pointers Zukrad left you are on point, use them to fix the team you have. Use the calculator to check and test your Pokemon and distinguish what you need. Charizard was not the only inefficient build here, but pointing out the errors in him are enough to grant you an example on how to use it.

You have a very good idea of what you wanted to mold here, play around and give us a better rendition of this. It can be better, you can do better.

Try it out, you might be on to something.
​

 

[3905]

Start with the team you've presented to us and try again.

The pointers Zukrad left you are on point, use them to fix the team you have. Use the calculator to check and test your Pokemon and distinguish what you need. Charizard was not the only inefficient build here, but pointing out the errors in him are enough to grant you an example on how to use it.

You have a very good idea of what you wanted to mold here, play around and give us a better rendition of this. It can be better, you can do better.

Try it out, you might be on to something.
​

I think to avoid stress I'll think about it one Pokemon at a time.
I'll restart it with Charizard:
I'll change Mega X to Mega Y, Give it a Special Build, with Dragon Pulse, Heat Wave, Fire Blast (100% in Sun), and Air Cutter.
Does that seem pretty solid?

 

[Mr. Kream]

It's best to go one at a time, for Char-Y, in doubles, Protect is an imperative, but do the whole team before posting though, it's easier for everyone involved that way. If you're unsure about how Protect is important, here, look, it's a former world championship match, if you watch, you'll understand.

 

[3905]

It's best to go one at a time, for Char-Y, in doubles, Protect is an imperative, but do the whole team before posting though, it's easier for everyone involved that way. If you're unsure about how Protect is important, here, look, it's a former world championship match, if you watch, you'll understand.

I know Protect is a great move. I actually feel like Wide Guard would be a safer thing for doubles, but I didn't know what to put it on at first.

 

[Mr. Kream]

There are a lot of great Wide Guard users like Aegislash and Aerodactyl, pick one and try it out.
http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-bw/wideguard.shtml