Continued Discussion: Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask/Twilight Princess

[P2.0]

( Before I start this, I just wanna say that this is really something me and my brother, @Kakea were talking about. However, since this is a community, everyone's gonna wanna piece of this, lol.

And that's totally fine, but the thing is, we're not gonna go off based on "popular theories" people came up with, or ideas created by said theories. We're going by what Nintendo actually said, and trying to piece what could have happened in between the three games, according to Hyrule Historia. Now, certain people are gonna say "But, that's theorizing, too! ", or " Hyrule Historia's wrong!!! *Insert stupid raging here*", don't get too excited. Again, we're going around what Nintendo actually said, so keep thoughts around that. If I sense someone's being disruptive or rude, I'm reporting, m'kay? Don't be a smart-aleck, please. :c If you don't like what this is, please exit, and don't try to get the last say. )

NOW THEN! Hiya everyone, P2.0 here, coming up with another topic in the Zelda universe!
So, me and my brother were talking about Termina, the parallel world to Hyrule. We got on the discussion about the Goron who has a reservation in Stock Pot Inn. He has the same name as Link, right? Just like the name of Darunia's son back in Goron City. And he sorta disappears on the second day, right? Maybe that Goron really was Darunia's son, and when he couldn't get his reservation, he left to go back home. Which means Link could go back home after he saved everyone. That's what we thought, anyway. .3.

And since we were on that discussion, we sorta thought about what happened to OoT Link after the events of Majora's Mask. We know he's the Hero's Shade, as Nintendo confirmed, but how did he get that way? He couldn't have turned into a Stalfos, because the Lost Woods is in Kokiri Forest. While that me and brother stumped for a good few minutes, I was thinking about the Poes in Twilight Princess, in Arbiter's Grounds. Those guys had skeletal faces, if I remember correctly. And spirits can change their form to mimic other beings, can't they? And they can possess things, say, like maybe the armor he was wearing?

...Where am I getting at with all of this? .-. Well, I was thinking that Link didn't die when he fell into the portal to Termina. Termina's a parallel world to Hyrule, not some sort of limbo like most theories claim it is. ( Although I like it, no offense. ) I guess that's all I wanted to say, at least until brother comes by with any more things. :3 What do you guys think? If this intrigued you, you can leave a like if you want. And comment down below your thoughts on it! ( Be respectful of others ideas, though. Don't be rude. )

 

[Pandaxclone2]

Well there's no way he could've died before or during Termina's adventure since otherwise TP Link wouldn't exist. He is TP Link's ancestor after all. The only other thing remaining is that Link likely did get lost one day in the Lost Woods after Majora's Mask and turned into a Stalfos. Probably at a much older age too since the Hero's Shade is a lot taller than when we last see Child Link.

 

[P2.0]

Well there's no way he could've died before or during Termina's adventure since otherwise TP Link wouldn't exist. He is TP Link's ancestor after all. The only other thing remaining is that Link likely did get lost one day in the Lost Woods after Majora's Mask and turned into a Stalfos. Probably at a much older age too since the Hero's Shade is a lot taller than when we last see Child Link.

I dunno, Link seemed more like a ghost, rather than a Stalfos. He could change from a wolf to that skeletal warrior, which last I check, Stalfos couldn't do that. And about getting Lost in the Lost Woods, I'm not sure if he actually went in there. Unless they changed how it looked like from OoT.

 

[Ace]

Wait... that was a portal he took to Termina field? I thought it was an underground passage... Anyhoo, you have a very sound theory here.

 

[P2.0]

Wait... that was a portal he took to Termina field? I thought it was an underground passage... Anyhoo, you have a very sound theory here.

I thought so too, but if you think about it, when you saw all of the neon images swirling around you as you fell, that's not what you normally see when you fall underground, right? Plus, and I'm not sure if I should bring it up since I never played it, but Lorule was the same way. By normal means, you couldn't go there. You could only enter via a portal found in various places around Hyrule in A Link Between Worlds. And Lorule is the parallel world of Hyrule, much like Termina, yes? :3 Also, thanks you!

 

[Blue Knight]

About Link the Goron, I'd say he's most likely Darunia's son's counterpart rather than Darunia's son himself, as he was not born yet at the time of Link's travel to Termina, much less having such an adult shape.

And, like Panda said, Link had to be alive after MM for TP!Link to exists, so he most certainly didn't get lost on the Lost Woods (but just to note, people with no fairies DO get turned into Stalfos when on the Lost Woods after some time) so he must have returned to Hyrule at some point. But I'd say he really turned into a Stalfos and not a Poe or anything like that, his design is almost literally the one of the Stalfos in OoT with more faded colors, lacking one eye and having leaves all over his body (pretty much implying he was on the woods at the time of his transformation)

There are heavy hints that OoT!Link had another quest on the Child Timeline, such as the Hero's Bow, which shares the name with the one he finds in Termina, for example. So, something must have happened during this timeframe, OoT!Link returned from Termina, had a smaller quest where he made a name for himself, a low key one, and at some point got lost on the Lost Woods without a fairy and became a Stalfos, dying regretful of not having passed down his skills.

I'm actually rather interested on this, serves as a pretty nice sequel hook.

 

[P2.0]

About Link the Goron, I'd say he's most likely Darunia's son's counterpart rather than Darunia's son himself, as he was not born yet at the time of Link's travel to Termina, much less having such an adult shape.

And, like Panda said, Link had to be alive after MM for TP!Link to exists, so he most certainly didn't get lost on the Lost Woods (but just to note, people with no fairies DO get turned into Stalfos when on the Lost Woods after some time) so he must have returned to Hyrule at some point. But I'd say he really turned into a Stalfos and not a Poe or anything like that, his design is almost literally the one of the Stalfos in OoT with more faded colors, lacking one eye and having leaves all over his body (pretty much implying he was on the woods at the time of his transformation)

There are heavy hints that OoT!Link had another quest on the Child Timeline, such as the Hero's Bow, which shares the name with the one he finds in Termina, for example. So, something must have happened during this timeframe, OoT!Link returned from Termina, had a smaller quest where he made a name for himself, a low key one, and at some point got lost on the Lost Woods without a fairy and became a Stalfos, dying regretful of not having passed down his skills.

I'm actually rather interested on this, serves as a pretty nice sequel hook.

Guess that does make sense. Although I'm still not certain on the whole Stalfos thing. The Kokiri kids said different things between OoT 64 and OoT 3D. In N64, they said people without faries turn into Stalfos entering the Lost Woods, but in 3D, they said only Kokiris can enter without turning into Stalfos. Maybe... Races outside of Kokiri need varies??? I dunno.

Also, you sure about the whole Stalfos thing? Does that mean OoT Link gained the ability to turn into a Wolf too somewhere along his journey? Cuz I'm pretty sure Stalfos can't do that by themselves. But yeah, that's why I think he's more so a spirit than a Stalfos.

 

[Blue Knight]

IIRC, Kokiri without fairies turn into Skull Kids, while Hylians (and presumably other races) turn into Stalfos.

As for his transformation into wolf... I dunno :/ but he did seem to gain a whole slew of new tricks like multiplication and sword beams, so maybe he did gain new abilities.

Now I'm even more curious about it

 

[Pandaxclone2]

There are heavy hints that OoT!Link had another quest on the Child Timeline, such as the Hero's Bow, which shares the name with the one he finds in Termina, for example. So, something must have happened during this timeframe, OoT!Link returned from Termina, had a smaller quest where he made a name for himself, a low key one, and at some point got lost on the Lost Woods without a fairy and became a Stalfos, dying regretful of not having passed down his skills.

I'm actually rather interested on this, serves as a pretty nice sequel hook.

Speaking of OOT Child Link's time between MM and TP, he likely also hooked up with Malon since TP Zelda lives quite close to a farm and owns a horse by the name of Epona. Then again, just as likely that he wound up with somebody else.

Like Frozen said, Kokiri are unique in that they turn into Skull Kids when they are lost in the Lost Woods. As for Hero's Shade's Wolf Form, that could potentially be a property of the Twilight realm or a reflection of the current hero as TP Link gets transformed after being thrown into the realm.

 

[P2.0]

Dang it, now my heart's all aflutter! This is so exciting!

@Pandaxclone2 :Oh, right, they do. .-. Whoops, I forgot about that. ^^' And yeah, lots of people did say that because of Twi-Link living on a farm, they suggested that OoT Link married Malon, but I think I wanna see what Nintendo says about that first before I jump to anything radical.

 

[Kakea]

Speaking of OOT Child Link's time between MM and TP, he likely also hooked up with Malon since TP Zelda lives quite close to a farm and owns a horse by the name of Epona. Then again, just as likely that he wound up with somebody else.

Like Frozen said, Kokiri are unique in that they turn into Skull Kids when they are lost in the Lost Woods. As for Hero's Shade's Wolf Form, that could potentially be a property of the Twilight realm or a reflection of the current hero as TP Link gets transformed after being thrown into the realm.

Ha! Very interesting... Now would someone explain the 4 giants: They are the gods of Termina, and there's a theory that says, The gods of Hyrule tried to help the Terminites(?) but they made fun of them and refused guidance. The gods ended up making stone tower flip upside down, when shot with a light arrow. If Termina is a parallel world, who are the 4 giants? They can't be gods, as they were trapped by the monsters Majora made. And if Termina IS in the same world Hyrule exists in: There's a small handful of References/Inconsistencies that shows, the gods apparently hates the tribe ALOT!!! So much, that apparently if they DID exist in the same world, they are the twilight people. The whole tribe(?) was sent to live in alternate world for centuries! Why haven't there been one direct reference in any game that this happened, except by the light spirit in Lake Hylia

 

[Pandaxclone2]

Keep in mind that the Happy Mask Salesman is one of the few characters known to cross between Hyrule and Termina, which could mean that Majora's Mask is also of forgein origin to Termina. So for all we know the four giants could actually be gods as they're claimed to be, just contending with another outside force that could potentially be as powerful as them. (It's never explained officially what Majora is meant to be beyond the mask but if the Fierce Deity Mask in his possession is any indication he is quite powerful.)

As for what the four giants are meant to be... I'm unsure. Perhaps they're gods in the respect that they're tall almighty beings that can do amazing feats (like holding a small moon up) but are not omnipotent.

Actually now that I think about it, that would explain why Majora's Mask is hanging on Link's wall in ALBW; maybe it does hail from Hyrule.

 

[Kakea]

They could really just be giants! And it could actually be possible to walk to Termina!!!?
I really want to see this in Breath of the wild! (Though the story could go in a completely
different direction...) I also want to know how the Royal family betrayed the
shiekah: They say that in Ocarina Of Time but, they never say what happened and what
they did! The only reference afterward is in Skyward Sword. The sheikh eye doesn't have the tear mark,
(Even though Imp does... Were they already betrayed?) but in every game after, in the timeline, it does.
I REALLY want to know, Hylia seemed to have treated Imp ok... what happened later on?!

 

[Blue Knight]

I think the Majora's Mask on Link's wall is just a reference.

The 4 Giants are likely gods in the "little g" sense, very powerful beings that can still be harmed and possibly killed. Not creation gods, but guardian gods, as it's stated that Termina is a parallel world created by a leak in the power of creation of the goddesses in the MM manual.

Also, I think the Majora's Mask is indeed of Termina origin, possibly the counterpart of the Fused Shadow.

As for the Terminians blaspheming the goddesses, that came about by the marks on thr wall that present some figures licking an inverted Tri-Force on the canyon's pillars. Since this was removed from MM3D, I'd say it's not canon anymore.

 

[Pandaxclone2]

I think the Majora's Mask on Link's wall is just a reference.

The 4 Giants are likely gods in the "little g" sense, very powerful beings that can still be harmed and possibly killed. Not creation gods, but guardian gods, as it's stated that Termina is a parallel world created by a leak in the power of creation of the goddesses in the MM manual.

Also, I think the Majora's Mask is indeed of Termina origin, possibly the counterpart of the Fused Shadow.

As for the Terminians blaspheming the goddesses, that came about by the marks on thr wall that present some figures licking an inverted Tri-Force on the canyon's pillars. Since this was removed from MM3D, I'd say it's not canon anymore.

I doubt it's a counterpart so much as they're linked by the same people. The Twili weren't always in the Twilight Realm either; their ancestors were banished there. So it can at least be assumed that they originally hailed from Hyrule. Second, because of this the Fused Shadow is also linked to Hyrule as well. It could likely have been made in the Twilight Realm but the important thing who it is made by as pointed out above.

Also, it should be noted that we first see Majora's Mask in the Lost Woods in Hyrule. It's implied that the Happy Mask Salesman was around here when Skull Kid robbed him of the mask since he would've had no purpose being in Termina other than getting his mask back. (In fact, as soon as you get the mask back for him he gives a few sentences and just straight up leaves which indicates he had no other business there.) Also, the Skull Kid hails from Hyrule as well, making it more likely where it was stolen. This of course doesn't mean that Majora's Mask doesn't originate from Termina, but it makes it less likely.

Also also, this is just a sneaking suspicion of mine, but I don't think Termina is truly a parallel world, at least in the literal sense. (Yes, I did see the manual) If it were truly parallel then there would be plenty more characters to come across (which admittedly could be somewhere else but Termina isn't that big of a place) an alternate Ganondorf would need to be there in order for the Gerudo to exist, yet there is no such counterpart. Since the Gerudo can only have one male Gerudo at any time, then Ganondorf from Hyrule would fit the bill here.

We never see a counterpart to Link either, despite the theory that Fierce Deity may be that Link. Another possibility is that a group of each race from Hyrule just packed up and settled down in Termina. Since Link, Skull Kid and the Happy Mask Salesman can all enter and leave Termina as they please it follows the townsfolk can do the same.

 

[oshul]

I want to know why the moon has a face in the first place... why did skull kid/majoras make it have a scary face ;~; you walk out of the clock tower and BOOM creepy moon face. Also why is it smiling why I it happy its about to crash into us I think it should be scared it's about to smash its face into the town XD and don't get me started on how there's a grass field with one tree inside the moon.

 

[Pandaxclone2]

I want to know why the moon has a face in the first place... why did skull kid/majoras make it have a scary face ;~; you walk out of the clock tower and BOOM creepy moon face. Also why is it smiling why I it happy its about to crash into us I think it should be scared it's about to smash its face into the town XD and don't get me started on how there's a grass field with one tree inside the moon.

How is this smiling?

It looks more like it's grimacing in pain. Which would be further backed up by the Moon Tear you obtain later on in the plot.

 

[P2.0]

It's not smiling. .-. That would be extremely creepy if it was. I'd have to agree with @Pandaxclone2 , it does seem more like a grimace face.

 

[King Of 3D]

I actually watched a video saying the reason Link didn't die when he was going through the portal to Termina is because Link landed on the Deku flower, and later in the game no mater how high you came from, when you land on the Deku flower you won't loose any health, so Link was still not dead because he landed on the Deku flower.

 

[Ace]

Would it be cool if I share a theory I just came up with?

Spoiler: My theory with a possible Saria appearance in TP

In OoT: Saria knows the song "Saria's song" right? And it just so happens that the skull kid in TP plays this song too. And on the skull kid's description in SB it mentions: "Kokiri children lost in the forest become these mischievous music loving creatures." My theory: what if Saria somehow wandered off one day and became the skull kid in TP?