Fortnite has "Ruined Our Child's Life", parent claims

[Marc]

Two parents are claiming that Fortnite has ruined their child's life. The parents said if they knew Fortnite was SOOOO addictive, they wouldn't have let their child play the game or they would have monitored how they played the game:

Epic Games, when they created Fortnite, for years and years, hired psychologists - they really dug into the human brain and they really made the effort to make it as addictive as possible. They knowingly put on the market a very, very addictive game which was also geared toward youth.

In our case, the two parents that came forward and told [us], 'If we knew it was so addictive it would ruin our child's life, we would never have let them start playing Fortnite or we would have monitored it a lot more closely'.

There's also a class action lawsuit being prepared in Canada.. of course, I think lawyers are the only people who benefit from this.

Do you think it's the parent's fault or Fortnite's fault?

 

[Samster]

Obviously the parent’s fault for not correctly monitoring what their child is playing, or for how long they played it. The least they can do as parents is take some time to look at a game, and discern whether it’s right for their child or not.

Think about it this way. A video game company does exactly what they’re supposed to do, which is make a good game in order to get money. The consumers who play the game then critisize the company for making a good that’s too good. How does that make any sense?

How about these idiots who are just trying to make a cheap buck do some research? Smh

 

[eonia]

irresponsible parents as always

 

[Agentperson]

Both.
Fortnite is vape's school bully.

 

[Danominator]

Parents babysit their kids with screens.

I'll let you guys figure out my opinion from there.

 

[28142]

At it's base, the lawsuit is basically claiming that if something stimulates dopamine, it's just as addictive as crack. This means all games, music, tv shows, movies, pretty scenery, literally anything that stimulates the release of dopamine is going to get slapped with a warning if that wins. It's stupid and wont win.

Yes, games play off of psychology. But so does everything else in the world. Ever cried at a film or similar? Congrats, the psychology of playing on your emotions worked.

Of course, not all games are 100% free of blame. Once you start using psychology to push players to gamble in ways like free to play mobile games do, or yearly sports "games" (or yearly gambling sims as they should now be called) then that becomes an issue. This though can be made better with kids though by parents monitoring their kids and checking parental controls and spending limits.

It's called "Be a better parent". Don't let the internet become a baby sitter to your kids and this wont happen. But of course, why would these perfect parents be the issue? They could do nothing wrong!

 

[eonia]

Of course, not all games are 100% free of blame. Once you start using psychology to push players to gamble in ways like free to play mobile games do, or yearly sports "games" (or yearly gambling sims as they should now be called) then that becomes an issue. This though can be made better with kids though by parents monitoring their kids and checking parental controls and spending limits.

still your own responsability ,you know what your odds of getting your desired item in most gacha games is, is your desision to choose if its worth to pay money , be it to get that item ,or simply to support the game

for example, in dragalia lost,wich is developed by cygames i payed 30 euros for a suptix(it lets you choose the character or dragon you want, ¿would i do it again in the future? yes , because not only the game has gave me a year of fun, but also, the developers give a lot of freebies (like the 100 pulls we had for the anniversary,) and they listen to player feedback to make the game better, not only with dragalia, but with their other games,

and for the moment, while i enjoy pokemon masters for what it is, i wont pay a cent,at least for now because not only PM is stingy with free gems, but also it looks like the developers dont play their own game ¿who had the idea of making most tech pairs useless by making the endame bosses extremely strong againts all status and debuffs?¿who had the idea of forcing the slowest speed in multiplayer?

i can use my money as a prize for developers that make a good game , and is my responsability to control how much I spend in gachas, if someone´s life is ruined by a gacha game, i think that person is responsible for that, the same thing can happen with casinos or betting sites, but i will always see more stigma for the gacha games because aparently new media is evil

the lottery also is not very diferent to a glorified bet,but society sees it better than a casino or similar options for betting for some reason
my parents have wasted Thousands of euros in their lifes in hopes they would get the lottery prize someday, obviusly that day never happened, and they keep wasting part of their money in lottery

 

[28142]

because not only the game has gave me a year of fun, but also, the developers give a lot of freebies (like the 100 pulls we had for the anniversary,)

still your own responsability ,you know what your odds of getting your desired item in most gacha games is, is your desision to choose if its worth to pay money , be it to get that item ,or simply to support the game

Gatcha was literally what I was referring to. It preys on the most preditory methods that have been tried and proven to hook in players.

Most gatcha games don't tell you the odds. All it is is like "50% chance for ultra rare!" or something, not actually chances based on specifics. Also, percentages aren't really that straight forward, I can tell you that for certain. There's a LOT more happening behind the scenes.

A ton of psychology goes into gatcha games, it's the same methods as lootboxes. It plays off of stimulating dopamine to get you hooked, along with sunk cost fallacy and multiple other things to trick and drag you deeper in. It's shady, disgusting and unfortunatly, gets a crap ton of money really easily so companies keep doing it. So much so that it's started to bleed over into PC/Console games..

I also disagree with your statement of "if someone´s life is ruined by a gacha game, i think that person is responsible for that". Impressionable kids with no real sense of money, or people prone to addiction are both suseptable groups of people to fall into the psychological traps these things use. And it really is through no fault of their own.

because not only the game has gave me a year of fun, but also, the developers give a lot of freebies (like the 100 pulls we had for the anniversary,)

Funny thing about the freebie pulls and such, yeah that's all carefully calculated and analysed to find the best patterns and the pull outcomes are not probably nearly as "random" as you think. The main base of freebies like that is to pull you down the microtransaction route because of a few reasons, either the pulls where good (so, designed to have better pulls then paid ones), you get hooked on the dopamine from opening them, or maybe a couple other carefully crafted reasons.

A lot of time, money and effort goes into researching psychology of this kind of stuff. Way way WAY more then people think. It's shocking, and I'm still learning of more tricks used every day.

 

[eonia]

I also disagree with your statement of "if someone´s life is ruined by a gacha game, i think that person is responsible for that". Impressionable kids with no real sense of money, or people prone to addiction are both suseptable groups of people to fall into the psychological traps these things use. And it really is through no fault of their own.

ok ,the kids are not at fault...their parents are, for not crontrolling what they do, and for them to spend so much money in a game, the parents would have to let them or...simply leave their credit card data in the phone or console, wich is something that doesnt need a gacha game to produce a disaster (with the kid buying ALL of the games he wants in the store for example)

and for the addict people, they know they have a problem but still dowload a gacha game? and even then, there are ways to make yourself think if a gacha character is worth the money (for example, not saving credit card info in the phone, or setting extra passwords to make you take a litte more time before starting to spend, to give you some seconds to think if what youre doing is worth it)
blaming the product for something you bring upon yourself is like saying that mcdonalds is to blame for the obese people that dont even try to get healthier

Funny thing about the freebie pulls and such, yeah that's all carefully calculated and analysed to find the best patterns and the pull outcomes are not probably nearly as "random" as you think. The main base of freebies like that is to pull you down the microtransaction route because of a few reasons, either the pulls where good (so, designed to have better pulls then paid ones), you get hooked on the dopamine from opening them, or maybe a couple other carefully crafted reasons.

A lot of time, money and effort goes into researching psychology of this kind of stuff. Way way WAY more then people think. It's shocking, and I'm still learning of more tricks used every day.

yeah, they make players spend money by treating them well, and thats bad because...? they are not charity, obviusly they want money ,but we are the ones to decide how much money we spent, if any at all

 

[28142]

ok ,the kids are not at fault...their parents are, for not crontrolling what they do, and for them to spend so much money in a game, the parents would have to let them or...simply leave their credit card data in the phone or console, wich is something that doesnt need a gacha game to produce a disaster (with the kid buying ALL of the games he wants in the store for example)

Ye, that's the point I made lol.

and for the addict people, they know they have a problem but still dowload a gacha game? and even then, there are ways to make yourself think if a gacha character is worth the money (for example, not saving credit card info in the phone, or setting extra passwords to make you take a litte more time before starting to spend, to give you some seconds to think if what youre doing is worth it)

It is VERY easy to say something like this if you're not prone to addiction yourself. That is far from how it works. Knowing you have a problem =/= you know how to control it. Knowing that you're prone to addiction =/= you know how to control it. And that's just based on *knowing* it.
There's many many people out there who don't even realise that what they're doing is an addiction, and that goes across almost anything that can be an addiction. Great example would be alcohol, most people who drink alchohol don't realise that actually they drink much much more then they should, and instead think that that's just a normal amount.

yeah, they make players spend money by treating them well, and thats bad because...?

You're not quite understanding the "treating them well" part. It's not a mentality of "let's treat the players because we like them" it's a mentality of "Not enough people are using the microtransactions, let's give a taster of what people can get from them so we can get more people buying pulls".

but we are the ones to decide how much money we spent, if any at all

Precisely, doesn't stop them from manipulating though to make you think you need something though more then you actually do, then you buy that thing thinking that you made that choice by yourself and other things like that. Like I said, it's slimy what companies do. Most of what happens I doubt you even realise are happening.

 

[Whovian#1]

I have to agree with @Sky on this one. I don't think you fully understand the gravity of your statements @eonia .

Kids don't fully understand the concept of microtransactions. I don't think they would fully realize that the odds are rigged against them and that they are just scummy tactics used by companies to try and squeeze out as much money as they possibly can. Do you remember that whole youtube controversy where Jake Paul and Ricegum got in a lot of trouble for promoting a gambling website on their channel? The problem there was not that they promoted a gambling website, but who they promoted it too. The typical kid who would watch Ricegum and Jake Paul would not fully understand how rigged the odds are of the website. They would not understand that the website probably raised the odds for both of them to show them actually getting cool stuff. They do not understand how much of a losing battle putting money into that website is. It's the same kind of deal with microtransactions. They don't understand and realize how scummy they are. They don't understand how low the drops for an actual good item is in most of these games. And so an addictive game with tons of microtansactions specifically targeted at kids who do not fully understand the ramifications of such "gatcha mechanics" is quite frankly despicable.

Also give the parents a break will you? Do you honestly expect them to monitor every single thing their child does on the electronics? Parents have other things to do. They have jobs and lives. They can't spend all of their time watching and paying attention to everything their kid is doing. The only way they could is if at least one of the parents is a stay at home mom/dad and just follows around the kid all day every day. But even fully monitoring their kid by just doing THAT is impossible. The kid would have to have no social life. Even if the parent did follow the kid around all day they wouldn't be able to control whether or not they saw their friends play one of these games at school or at their friends house. The kid would have to have literally no social life. And I don't know about you but I think the better parents are a lot less restrictive than big brother or any dictator.

Also can I just say that what you said about addiction is just wrong, and honestly offensive to anybody who has an addiction. Don't you think that once people realize how bad the addiction is destroying their life they would want to stop? According to what you said it seems like people should just be able to say "no I'm done with being addicted to alcohol" and never have a beer ever again. It doesn't work like that and that's very ignorant of you to think it does. So many people struggle with addiction, why do you think there are so many rehabs? Here's google's definition of addiction:

"physically and mentally dependent on a particular substance, and unable to stop taking it without incurring adverse effects."

Have you not heard of withdrawals? Of people literally shaking because of how dependent their body is on a substance? It's a horrible horrible disease and quite frankly I'm very upset at how easy you think it is to quit. Please do some research before you comment something that stupid.

So in short yes fortnite should be held responsible. In fact anybody who specifically makes a highly addictive pay to win game designed at kids should be held this accountable. Yes I do think that this is somewhat the parent's fault for not doing something about it a little sooner but yes fortnite should definitely be held accountable for what they've done.

 

[Danominator]

Kids have very little restraint on their self control, and parents have to be the ones teaching them self control. Apparently, quite a few don't.

 

[28142]

Kids have very little restraint on their self control, and parents have to be the ones teaching them self control. Apparently, quite a few don't.

Self-control also is a very very hard thing to learn for some people. People with ADHD have a lot of impulsivity issues and are more susceptible to addiction for example. And for them, self-control and that kind of stuff is near impossible to learn to the amount that a neurotypical person can.

 

[Whovian#1]

It's not that simple tho @Danominator . In fact I'd say it's not about not self control at all. Again the definition of addicted means

"physically and mentally dependent on a particular substance, and unable to stop taking it without incurring adverse effects."

If you're addicted to something there IS NO self control over it. At that point your brain has become so dependent on that substance that it needs it to function normally. Again shakes and withdrawals and what not.

 

[eonia]

Self-control also is a very very hard thing to learn for some people. People with ADHD have a lot of impulsivity issues and are more susceptible to addiction for example. And for them, self-control and that kind of stuff is near impossible to learn to the amount that a neurotypical person can.

well, i have ADHD (and asperger too) and i have self control and its nothing especial, and i know other people with ADHD with self control and again ,and its nothing special,we, persons with ADHD, have been teached to ve responsible to "control ourselvers" in life, ¿and suddenly we arent responsible to do so in a game?
it may be a litte harder than most people, however you don help by claiming is "near impossible" to learn (because it isnt "near impossible) and by assosiation,even if it isnt your intention, you are saying that we wont be able to have normal lifes

 

[28142]

well, i have ADHD (and asperger too) and i have self control and its nothing especial, and i know other people with ADHD with self control and again ,and its nothing special,we, persons with ADHD, have been teached to ve responsible to "control ourselvers" in life, ¿and suddenly we arent responsible to do so in a game?
it may be a litte harder than most people, however you don help by claiming is "near impossible" to learn (because it isnt "near impossible) and by assosiation,even if it isnt your intention, you are saying that we wont be able to have normal lifes

Every person with ADHD is different ya know. One of the main things about it is a severe lack of impulsivity control which leads into this.

I also have adhd and aspergers, and I'm the opposite of what you just said.

 

[Danominator]

I also have ADHD, and if my parents didn't teach me self control at a young age, I probably wouldn't have learned it at all.

 

[eonia]

Every person with ADHD is different ya know. One of the main things about it is a severe lack of impulsivity control which leads into this.

I also have adhd and aspergers, and I'm the opposite of what you just said.

well if you have a problematic aspect in your personality, its up to you to improve that, and you cannot call other "evil" because they dont adjust to you

 

[Whovian#1]

Okay I'm glad you guys learned self control but that's you guys. Everybody's different. Now I may not have ADHD but it would appear to me that self control is a lot harder to teach now than ever. Look were raised up on the cusp of all this technology. I remember a time before iphones were everywhere and the only time we used a computer in school was at the computer school. Now my school district lends out chromebooks to all the students... including people in ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. You know at the younger age where self control is a lot harder and what not. You can no longer just say to your kid "all right 1 hour of electronics a day" when they have to go on their computers to do their school work. So it's not just as simple as "I did it so others can". You're not growing up in the same environment as these kids. Now you could say "no electronics besides school work" but no that kid is missing out on a big part of his life socially as all the kids will probably talk about that new fortnite skin or a cool youtube video that they saw.

I'm not saying that teaching self-control is impossible but you can't just say "just because I did it so can they". It's a lot more complicated than that. And generalizing the kids and parents situation to that extreme isn't really fair to either of them.

 

[eonia]

Okay I'm glad you guys learned self control but that's you guys. Everybody's different. Now I may not have ADHD but it would appear to me that self control is a lot harder to teach now than ever. Look were raised up on the cusp of all this technology. I remember a time before iphones were everywhere and the only time we used a computer in school was at the computer school. Now my school district lends out chromebooks to all the students... including people in ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. You know at the younger age where self control is a lot harder and what not. You can no longer just say to your kid "all right 1 hour of electronics a day" when they have to go on their computers to do their school work. So it's not just as simple as "I did it so others can". You're not growing up in the same environment as these kids. Now you could say "no electronics besides school work" but no that kid is missing out on a big part of his life socially as all the kids will probably talk about that new fortnite skin or a cool youtube video that they saw.

I'm not saying that teaching self-control is impossible but you can't just say "just because I did it so can they". It's a lot more complicated than that. And generalizing the kids and parents situation to that extreme isn't really fair to either of them.

self control isnt impossing a ridiculous imposition like "no electronics at all" or make then ridicously limited to your kid
and yes, learning self control is something everithing can do, its nothing special
most of the time when we say "we simply cannot" for wathever it isnt is a excuse be it because we dont want to make the effort or we dont care enougth about it and for most things,and thats okay ,not everyone have interest in wathever thing "we cannot do" and we dont need to be able to do literally anything

but in the case of self control thats something every one of us needs in the daily life, as kids, its our parents duty to teach us self control ,but as adults, its our responsability
as far i know i havent seen criminals being released because "oh sorry, not everyone can have self control you know?" nor people defending them saying "owww not everyone has self control, forgive them please" at least not withouth summoning the anger of the masses