Whoever Invented Smogums Battle Clause, I Hate You...

[Lee Sin]

That's EXACTLY my point! Why can't you understand it yet? Smogon should be used ONLY as a reference! I can't stand it when people just copy-paste the sets from there, make teams like that and then also be called professionals on top of all that!

When I said suggestion I was talking about the suggestion PS gives you when you choose moves for pokemon if you wanted to auto fill

 

[Zukrad]

Smogon is the only I guess official rules, people still use it in tourney's often. Protean Greninja is btter than weavile imo.
One thing I didn't like was banning Mega Gengar :c
Until Nintendo ever makes an official list people will use smogon

They banned Gengar because of the Guaranteed Perish Trap he had

 

[Lee Sin]

They banned Gengar because of the Guaranteed Perish Trap he had

I know still didn't like it though
and Aegislash was too OP for OU imo.

 

[3905]

On the subject of Smogon's impeccable bans, I agree on how some of the bans don't make sense. I mean something like Mega Kanghaskan I can understand, and maybe Blaziken as well, but why do Mega Mawile and Greninja have to go? I've used Greninja as a good compeitive Pokemon for a while, his Protean sets are amazing but although he may have the amazing speed and sp attack, he lacks decent bulk to live longer than three turns if he doesn't get OHKOs. Mega Mawile doesn't seem to be uber as well, it can easily get one shotted by a lot of pokemon.

And on the subject of smogon sets, I agree some of them are really just bad. I use Greninja as a fast special sweeper (like @Tho suggested) but Smogon wants it to be a toxic spike user .-. Not saying all their sets are terrible or anything, in fact I look at their sets to get an idea of what I want to breed in my game, but sometimes I have this general idea of how a Pokemon should work and then Smogon has this awkward set that almost nobody's ever heard of.

 

[FLCL]

On the subject of Smogon's impeccable bans, I agree on how some of the bans don't make sense. I mean something like Mega Kanghaskan I can understand, and maybe Blaziken as well, but why do Mega Mawile and Greninja have to go? I've used Greninja as a good compeitive Pokemon for a while, his Protean sets are amazing but although he may have the amazing speed and sp attack, he lacks decent bulk to live longer than three turns if he doesn't get OHKOs. Mega Mawile doesn't seem to be uber as well, it can easily get one shotted by a lot of pokemon.

And on the subject of smogon sets, I agree some of them are really just bad. I use Greninja as a fast special sweeper (like @Tho suggested) but Smogon wants it to be a toxic spike user .-. Not saying all their sets are terrible or anything, in fact I look at their sets to get an idea of what I want to breed in my game, but sometimes I have this general idea of how a Pokemon should work and then Smogon has this awkward set that almost nobody's ever heard of.

Greninja was banned because of the changes made in ORAS, it gained access to both Gunk Shot and Low Kick, further increasing its already amazing movepool and making it so Fairies like Clefable and Mega Gardevoir were no longer reliable checks to it, considering Greninja also had Protean and his moveset could be customized to suit a team's specific needs, it had to go.

Regarding Mega Mawile, nothing appreciated switching in to it due to Huge Power, Sub/Punch dealt with Heatran, SD Fire Fang dealt with other steel types that resisted its STAB, great typing and priority in the form of Sucker Punch and it had a good matchup against all playstyles, it had to go.

 

[Tho]

Greninja was banned because of the changes made in ORAS, it gained access to both Gunk Shot and Low Kick, further increasing its already amazing movepool and making it so Fairies like Clefable and Mega Gardevoir were no longer reliable checks to it, considering Greninja also had Protean and his moveset could be customized to suit a team's specific needs, it had to go.

Regarding Mega Mawile, nothing appreciated switching in to it due to Huge Power, Sub/Punch dealt with Heatran, SD Fire Fang dealt with other steel types that resisted its STAB, great typing and priority in the form of Sucker Punch and it had a good matchup against all playstyles, it had to go.

Mega Medicham should be banned too by that logic! It can learn moves to hit any type supereffectively, has the second highest attack in the game and has much better speed compared to Mawile, while also having tons of support and some recovery moves!

 

[Zukrad]

Mega Medicham should be banned too by that logic! It can learn moves to hit any type supereffectively, has the second highest attack in the game and has much better speed compared to Mawile, while also having tons of support and some recovery moves!

There are some reason why Mawile is banned and Medicham not.

First: Power, Mawile hurts more
Second: access to sword dance
Third: amazing Typing (Steel Fairy is one of the best types, if not the best defensive type combo in the game)
Fourth: Amazing Bulk + Intimidate, wich combined with the steel/fairy typing gives you an easy chance to get one, or even two sword dances
Fifth: Sucker Punch, fixing the speed problem, and if the opponent uses a status move, the Mawile player can predict that and go for play rough or any move, or even SD again
Sixth: Mawile's only "Counter" was Heatran, that means, to not lose to Mawile you need to bring Heatran in every team, or foddering some pokemon. And even Heatran wasn't safe from the sub punch set

While medicham is faster and has almost the same amount of power, it doesn't has access to any boosting move besides Bulk Up (is not that good), his defensive typing is not perfect, and even when hits 100 speed, it kinda loses to stuff that is faster than it thanks to its poor bulk (Like Gengar or Talonflame), or Pokemon that can take hits from it easily (Like Bulky Psychic types, Mega Sableye, Ghosts in general (specially Cofagrigus) and Physically def Clef)

http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue44/ou-to-ubers

Here gets explained the reasoning behind ALL the bans in Smogon's metagame, and how may people voted to get them banned, check them out

 

[Tho]

There are some reason why Mawile is banned and Medicham not.

First: Power, Mawile hurts more
Second: access to sword dance
Third: amazing Typing (Steel Fairy is one of the best types, if not the best defensive type combo in the game)
Fourth: Amazing Bulk + Intimidate, wich combined with the steel/fairy typing gives you an easy chance to get one, or even two sword dances
Fifth: Sucker Punch, fixing the speed problem, and if the opponent uses a status move, the Mawile player can predict that and go for play rough or any move, or even SD again
Sixth: Mawile's only "Counter" was Heatran, that means, to not lose to Mawile you need to bring Heatran in every team, or foddering some pokemon. And even Heatran wasn't safe from the sub punch set

While medicham is faster and has almost the same amount of power, it doesn't has access to any boosting move besides Bulk Up (is not that good), his defensive typing is not perfect, and even when hits 100 speed, it kinda loses to stuff that is faster than it thanks to its poor bulk (Like Gengar or Talonflame), or Pokemon that can take hits from it easily (Like Bulky Psychic types, Mega Sableye, Ghosts in general (specially Cofagrigus) and Physically def Clef)

http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue44/ou-to-ubers

Here gets explained the reasoning behind ALL the bans in Smogon's metagame, and how may people voted to get them banned, check them out

Mega Mawile is terribly slow and unless it uses Sucker Punch, it's almost definitely going to have to take a hit before it moves! Also, despite it's typing and defenses, it still gets 1-Hit K.O.ed by Typhlosion or any fire type with 350 special attack and above! Additionally, both Will-O-Wisp (burns in general) and Gastro Acid cripple it so much that it becomes almost useless! On top of all that, it still has an incredibly shallow movepool and is forced to spam a 90% accuracy move hoping it doesn't miss! Finally, despite only having a good physical defense, it still keeps it's terrible HP stat!

Mega Medicham, one the other hand, has a great base 100 speed, just 22 attack points less, an incredibly rich movepool (with even a basic moveset alone being able to hit almost everything supereffectively), has recovery options, more than decent bulk to take a hit or two (especially after recovery), priority in Bullet Punch (for Fairies or 2-Hit K.O. choice Terrakion, which can already be taken out in a Drain Punch and restore the 50% damage it MAY take on a wild lucky break of the opponent) and Fake Out (for safe mega evolving and ruining a Sturdy or Focus Sash) and so on! Also don't forget that Magic Coat it has to avoid burns and status in general! This Pokemon has no drawbacks whatsoever!

So, after all this, do you still think it shouldn't be banned?

As for the other bans, I use a Tyranitar to take care of Mega Gengar and have never failed to do so, but even when I don't use that, as long as it's weakened even a little, Mega Gallade can 1-Hit K.O.es it with a Shadow Sneak and same goes for Mega Bannete or any strong priority attacker!

 

[FLCL]

Mega Mawile is terribly slow and unless it uses Sucker Punch, it's almost definitely going to have to take a hit before it moves! Also, despite it's typing and defenses, it still gets 1-Hit K.O.ed by Typhlosion or any fire type with 350 special attack and above! Additionally, both Will-O-Wisp (burns in general) and Gastro Acid cripple it so much that it becomes almost useless! On top of all that, it still has an incredibly shallow movepool and is forced to spam a 90% accuracy move hoping it doesn't miss! Finally, despite only having a good physical defense, it still keeps it's terrible HP stat!

Mega Medicham, one the other hand, has a great base 100 speed, just 22 attack points less, an incredibly rich movepool (with even a basic moveset alone being able to hit almost everything supereffectively), has recovery options, more than decent bulk to take a hit or two (especially after recovery), priority in Bullet Punch (for Fairies or 2-Hit K.O. choice Terrakion, which can already be taken out in a Drain Punch and restore the 50% damage it MAY take on a wild lucky break of the opponent) and Fake Out (for safe mega evolving and ruining a Sturdy or Focus Sash) and so on! Also don't forget that Magic Coat it has to avoid burns and status in general! This Pokemon has no drawbacks whatsoever!

So, after all this, do you still think it shouldn't be banned?

As for the other bans, I use a Tyranitar to take care of Mega Gengar and have never failed to do so, but even when I don't use that, as long as it's weakened even a little, Mega Gallade can 1-Hit K.O.es it with a Shadow Sneak and same goes for Mega Bannete or any strong priority attacker!

Typhlosion is not a counter to Mega Mawile, it's a check, claiming status moves like Will o Wisp cripple a Pokemon is not a solid argument because it implies your opponent will actually stay in on said status move and in Mega Mawile's case burning it doesn't actually stop it entirely because of Sword Dance and Huge Power (It also has Facade btw). Mega Mawile having a shallow movepool doesn't matter because it has everything it needs to be successful (Sword Dance, Fire Fang, Sucker Punch, Substitute, Play Rough, Iron Head, Focus Punch, and Knock Off) and a move not having 100% is not an argument because Play Rough is still a powerful STAB move regardless.

 

[Tho]

Typhlosion is not a counter to Mega Mawile, it's a check, claiming status moves like Will o Wisp cripple a Pokemon is not a solid argument because it implies your opponent will actually stay in on said status move and in Mega Mawile's case burning it doesn't actually stop it entirely because of Sword Dance and Huge Power (It also has Facade btw). Mega Mawile having a shallow movepool doesn't matter because it has everything it needs to be successful (Sword Dance, Fire Fang, Sucker Punch, Substitute, Play Rough, Iron Head, Focus Punch, and Knock Off) and a move not having 100% is not an argument because Play Rough is still a powerful STAB move regardless.

Typhlosion is a counter, since it both 1-Hit K.O.es it and easily can take any attack Mawile can use! I never said Eruption Typhlosion, which is then and only then a check! As for Will-O-Wisp, if the opponent has the move on a Pokemon and it's faster than Mawile, then the most logical choice is to inflict a burn and then switch out! If it's faster, most probably Mawile will go for Sucker Punch, which will end up failing! As long as you think thoroughly about how you are going to implement a strategy, then you will almost always be unpredictable! Plus, most Mega Mawile sets don't even have Swords Dance and, even if they do, you still just caused your opponent to receive passive damage for free! Same goes with Facade! It first needs to have the burn in order to get the boosted power and it's also not that common! As for the movepool, while it has some good moves, it's incredibly predictable! That was my point in case you didn't get it! Since you mentioned though, if you have ever let someone land a Focus Punch on you, then I don't know about how good your team is! No one is gonna have that on a Pokemon so prepared-for! Finally, about Play Rough, I never said it's a good move, but that's it's inaccurate, resulting in a possible defeat if it misses! It's like spamming Stone Edge and hoping it always hits (what 99% of the people on Smogon do)! 90% accuracy isn't bad, but it's still not that good when on a Pokemon like this!

 

[FLCL]

Typhlosion is a counter, since it both 1-Hit K.O.es it and easily can take any attack Mawile can use! I never said Eruption Typhlosion, which is then and only then a check! As for Will-O-Wisp, if the opponent has the move on a Pokemon and it's faster than Mawile, then the most logical choice is to inflict a burn and then switch out! If it's faster, most probably Mawile will go for Sucker Punch, which will end up failing! As long as you think thoroughly about how you are going to implement a strategy, then you will almost always be unpredictable! Plus, most Mega Mawile sets don't even have Swords Dance and, even if they do, you still just caused your opponent to receive passive damage for free! Same goes with Facade! It first needs to have the burn in order to get the boosted power and it's also not that common! As for the movepool, while it has some good moves, it's incredibly predictable! That was my point in case you didn't get it! Since you mentioned though, if you have ever let someone land a Focus Punch on you, then I don't know about how good your team is! No one is gonna have that on a Pokemon so prepared-for! Finally, about Play Rough, I never said it's a good move, but that's it's inaccurate, resulting in a possible defeat if it misses! It's like spamming Stone Edge and hoping it always hits (what 99% of the people on Smogon do)! 90% accuracy isn't bad, but it's still not that good when on a Pokemon like this!

A Pokemon does not qualify as a counter unless it can switch directly into any of the Pokemon's STAB or coverage moves and then reliably deal with it,Typlosion cannot switch into either a Play Rough, Iron Head or Knock Off and then live a following Sucker Punch afterwards, therefore it is not a counter.

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Typhlosion: 169-200 (56.9 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Typhlosion: 151-178 (50.8 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Typhlosion: 244-288 (82.1 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Typhlosion: 202-238 (68 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Will o Wisp won't work because your opponent isn't going to let you burn their Mawile, they'll just switch out. Mawile only ran Focus Punch so it could reliably deal with Heatran, which was its only counter and yes, Sword Dance was apart of the standard Mega Mawile while it was allowed to be used in the OU metagame back in XY.

 

[Zukrad]

Typhlosion is a counter, since it both 1-Hit K.O.es it and easily can take any attack Mawile can use! I never said Eruption Typhlosion, which is then and only then a check! As for Will-O-Wisp, if the opponent has the move on a Pokemon and it's faster than Mawile, then the most logical choice is to inflict a burn and then switch out! If it's faster, most probably Mawile will go for Sucker Punch, which will end up failing! As long as you think thoroughly about how you are going to implement a strategy, then you will almost always be unpredictable! Plus, most Mega Mawile sets don't even have Swords Dance and, even if they do, you still just caused your opponent to receive passive damage for free! Same goes with Facade! It first needs to have the burn in order to get the boosted power and it's also not that common! As for the movepool, while it has some good moves, it's incredibly predictable! That was my point in case you didn't get it! Since you mentioned though, if you have ever let someone land a Focus Punch on you, then I don't know about how good your team is! No one is gonna have that on a Pokemon so prepared-for! Finally, about Play Rough, I never said it's a good move, but that's it's inaccurate, resulting in a possible defeat if it misses! It's like spamming Stone Edge and hoping it always hits (what 99% of the people on Smogon do)! 90% accuracy isn't bad, but it's still not that good when on a Pokemon like this!

Also, the fact that Mawile gets burned is not really an argument, since Medicham gets also destroyed by w-o-w

Did you checked the Link... there they explain everything

 

[Mercedes-Benz]

For me, Smogon rules kind of busted the creativity of Pokemon. But this is an opinion, so don't quote me on that. But to further elaborate, the most creative we have been recently was back when Sejun Park and his Pachirisu took home the VGC Championship title. that was as about creative as it gets. And another thing, Doubles hasnt really grown on me as the "official" competitive format, because Pokemon started out as a Singles format. Sometimes, i wish they'd just make either a separate VGC Format where it involved Singles, but meh. What can ya do?