Supreme Court rules in favor of same-sex marriage nationwide

[2205]

And I never implied we should automatically do what is done in nature either. Was just pointed out that it is not a behaviour that only humans do.

 

[Iridium Winter]

And I never implied we should automatically do what is done in nature either. Was just pointed out that it is not a behaviour that only humans do.

Ok, though if you wanna talk about behavior, the norm in nature is still a male and a female. There's a reason marriage was defined as man and woman for thousands of years.

 

[2205]

It's still a minority in Humans too, same as it is in animals as well.

Marriage used to be something strategic for wealthy families to make up alliance. Should we go back to what it used to be and still is in some countries/families? Or should we keep on moving forward and allow marriage by love?

 

[Iridium Winter]

I should've mentioned that I think it should've stayed man and woman, I guess xD

 

[2205]

Tell us why, what are your reasons?

In fact, I should go ahead and tell you about a story I read a couple of years ago.

It was the story of a man. He was gay and was dating another man. They dated for 8 years if I remember correctly... The family of the other man was totally against homosexuality and never wanted to see him for the 8 years they dated.

But the man ended up in hospital. The family came to see him while he was in coma. His boyfriend wasn't allowed to see him, the family denied it, and since the man wasn't considered family by law, there was nothing he could do. They also decided to unplug the man at the hospital, his boyfriend (for the past 8 years) had no word to say in it; they weren't married, so by law he wasn't acknowledged at all.

The man didn't get invited as family to the funerals, and the family forbidden him to come.

All of this because gay marriage wasn't legal at the moment.

Marriage gives some power with the law as well. No one should see their loving one die and be unable to say goodbye one last time.

 

[Iridium Winter]

Tell us why, what are your reasons?

I won't go into religious reasons because it's pretty obvious not everyone follows it lol
But, in my mind, one of the main points of marriage of marriage is having a child and raising it, which is also what many consider one of the greatest experiences they've had (for obvious reasons, I can't vouch for that, but maybe one day ). You can't exactly do that as a homosexual couple. You can adopt, yes, but the kid is goin to get a lot of crap just for bein adopted, not to mention bein adopted by homosexual parents, so who knows how much that kid could get bullied. It isn't the same as having your own child, either. And, love them or hate them, gender roles exist. It would be harder to teach that to a child who has two parents of the same sex.
If we say it's ok for homosexual people to get married and make it a social norm, more people are going to start doing it and eventually, the population is more than likely goin to start dropping, which, while some countries probably need a smaller population (China and India, for example), we're talking about the United States. We don't want our population to start dropping a whole lot.
Also, as stated earlier, marriage has been defined as a man and a woman for thousands of years for a reason. The parts go together for a reason, too, and, I believe, that it is like that because it's supposed to be like that.
And since you brought up diseases earlier, homosexuality could easily be called a risky behavior.
This goes off course a little bit, but it isn't a civil rights problem like many people seem to believe.

About the story: Yes, I understand that marriage isn't only about child-bearing (though it is one of the main reasons for a lot of heterosexual couples). However, I'm sure that both of them knew what they were getting into when they got into it and I doubt that he was surprised.

 

[FLCL]

I won't go into religious reasons because it's pretty obvious not everyone follows it lol
But, in my mind, one of the main points of marriage of marriage is having a child and raising it, which is also what many consider one of the greatest experiences they've had (for obvious reasons, I can't vouch for that, but maybe one day ). You can't exactly do that as a homosexual couple. You can adopt, yes, but the kid is goin to get a lot of crap just for bein adopted, not to mention bein adopted by homosexual parents, so who knows how much that kid could get bullied. It isn't the same as having your own child, either. And, love them or hate them, gender roles exist. It would be harder to teach that to a child who has two parents of the same sex.
If we say it's ok for homosexual people to get married and make it a social norm, more people are going to start doing it and eventually, the population is more than likely goin to start dropping, which, while some countries probably need a smaller population (China and India, for example), we're talking about the United States. We don't want our population to start dropping a whole lot.
Also, as stated earlier, marriage has been defined as a man and a woman for thousands of years for a reason. The parts go together for a reason, too, and, I believe, that it is like that because it's supposed to be like that.
And since you brought up diseases earlier, homosexuality could easily be called a risky behavior.
This goes off course a little bit, but it isn't a civil rights problem like many people seem to believe.

About the story: Yes, I understand that marriage isn't only about child-bearing. However, I'm sure that both of them knew what they were getting into when they got into it and I doubt that he was surprised.

Homosexuality is not going to increase because of it becoming more socially acceptable, heterosexual men/women are not going to wake up one day and just decide to be gay, because homosexuality isn't a choice, it's genetic.

 

[Iridium Winter]

Homosexuality is not going to increase because of it becoming more socially acceptable, heterosexual men/women are not going to wake up one day and just decide to be gay, because homosexuality isn't a choice, it's genetic.

It isn't genetic. If it was genetic, how can one (identical) twin be homosexual when the other isn't?
And, I know it was controversial, but I have to agree with Ben Carson, if it isn't a choice, how do people go to prison straight and come out homosexual?

 

[2205]

There are already many children that have been raised by homosexual parents and they don't have problems. They also are less likely to fall into sexism and they develop interests based on their skills instead of their gender. Which is great IMO.

 

[Iridium Winter]

There are already many children that have been raised by homosexual parents and they don't have problems. They also are less likely to fall into sexism and they develop interests based on their skills instead of their gender. Which is great IMO.

They're still gonna be more likely to be bullied.

 

[2205]

They're still gonna be more likely to be bullied.

You can be bullied for the colour of you skin, your name or even because you're short. You'll get bullied about anything anyway.

 

[Iridium Winter]

You can be bullied for the colour of you skin, your name or even because you're short. You'll get bullied about anything anyway.

No reason to add one more thing.

 

[2205]

Instead of avoiding it, maybe trying to stop children from bullying others is better. You're trying to solve this issue the wrong way there. Let's prevent homosexuals from getting married, because their kids could be bullied. Shouldn't we educate the children instead to stop bullying what they don't understand?

 

[FLCL]

It isn't genetic. If it was genetic, how can one (identical) twin be homosexual when the other isn't?
And, I know it was controversial, but I have to agree with Ben Carson, if it isn't a choice, how do people go to prison straight and come out homosexual?

Because identical twins aren't completely identical, they have different finger prints, different hair patterns and different retina patterns and sometimes aren't even the same gender. It's perfectly possible for one to be homosexual and one to be heterosexual.

 

[Iridium Winter]

Because identical twins aren't completely identical, they have different finger prints, different hair patterns and different retina patterns and sometimes aren't even the same gender. It's perfectly possible for one to be homosexual and one to be heterosexual.

It's been studied. It's not genetic lol

Instead of avoiding it, maybe trying to stop children from bullying others is better. You're trying to solve this issue the wrong way there. Let's prevent homosexuals from getting married, because their kids could be bullied. Shouldn't we educate the children instead to stop bullying what they don't understand?

That's not much of a solution either. People have been trying that. Kids just brush it off.

 

[Kiki]

Hello!

I don't typically get into things like this, but there were some things with your post that bother me.

I won't go into religious reasons because it's pretty obvious not everyone follows it lol
But, in my mind, one of the main points of marriage of marriage is having a child and raising it, which is also what many consider one of the greatest experiences they've had (for obvious reasons, I can't vouch for that, but maybe one day ). You can't exactly do that as a homosexual couple. You can adopt, yes, but the kid is goin to get a lot of crap just for bein adopted, not to mention bein adopted by homosexual parents, so who knows how much that kid could get bullied. It isn't the same as having your own child, either. And, love them or hate them, gender roles exist. It would be harder to teach that to a child who has two parents of the same sex.

-I don't understand why kids would be bullied for being adopted. I have personally met several people who were adopted, and none of them have ever been bullied for it. Furthermore, if somebody is bullying another person for being adopted, they are the ones who are in the wrong. It is nobody's fault that they are adopted. If anything, the thought of more kids being adopted should be encouraging. There is an astounding amount of children who are unfortunately not adopted and that is a much worse fate than being adopted by a homosexual couple and possibly being bullied for it.

Additionally, I know a family who is raised by two mothers. They have encountered issues with people who think that homosexuality is wrong, but that is an issue that people, as a whole, should work on to solve. And like Sunny said, kids will be bullied for anything. It is better to try and teach them that bullying is wrong, as opposed to suppressing the rights of certain people (in this case, homosexuals).

Lastly, your point, "it would be harder to teach that to a child who has two parents of the same sex", how do you feel about children who are raised by only one parent?

If we say it's ok for homosexual people to get married and make it a social norm, more people are going to start doing it and eventually, the population is more than likely goin to start dropping, which, while some countries probably need a smaller population (China and India, for example), we're talking about the United States. We don't want our population to start dropping a whole lot.

-I am personally in favour of the belief that homosexuality is not something people choose, and so your idea that more people are going to start doing it is personally irrelevant for me. However, with gay marriage being accepted and more homosexual couples being married/being recognized/coming out, nothing is wrong with that. More children will be adopted, and that is not wrong.

And even if more kids are adopted and by some way the population does start to drop, the earth is already overpopulated as is. It's not exclusive to just China and India. They see it more, yes, but the earth is overpopulated as a whole. Furthermore, even if by some day lets say everybody "became" homosexual and straight couples "died out", women can get pregnant medically. Men can donate sperm and women can get pregnant that way. While some men and women are against that, not everybody is, and as such we would never truly be at risk of the population dying off even if everybody was homosexual at some point in time.

Also, as stated earlier, marriage has been defined as a man and a woman for thousands of years for a reason. The parts go together for a reason, too, and, I believe, that it is like that because it's supposed to be like that.
And since you brought up diseases earlier, homosexuality could easily be called a risky behavior.
This goes off course a little bit, but it isn't a civil rights problem like many people seem to believe.

About the story: Yes, I understand that marriage isn't only about child-bearing (though it is one of the main reasons for a lot of heterosexual couples). However, I'm sure that both of them knew what they were getting into when they got into it and I doubt that he was surprised.

-Marriage has been defined that way for a very long time, yes. And for a very long time laws were created to go hand in hand with racism and other forms of discrimination. Laws change. The meaning of words change. The world is constantly changing and that is okay. Some changes are not always for the best, and some are. I personally think that allowing gay people to get married is a good change. I also do not think that the act of a man and a man or a woman and a woman getting married should be called something new.

Also, to your point about child bearing, how do you feel about heterosexual couples who get married and either A.) Choose to not have children or B.) Cannot conceive children because one of the two partners is incapable of it?

~Now then, I truly hope that none of this comes off as attacking you because that is not my intention at all!~

 

[Iridium Winter]

Hello!

I don't typically get into things like this, but there were some things with your post that bother me.




-I don't understand why kids would be bullied for being adopted. I have personally met several people who were adopted, and none of them have ever been bullied for it. Furthermore, if somebody is bullying another person for being adopted, they are the ones who are in the wrong. It is nobody's fault that they are adopted. If anything, the thought of more kids being adopted should be encouraging. There is an astounding amount of children who are unfortunately not adopted and that is a much worse fate than being adopted by a homosexual couple and possibly being bullied for it.

Additionally, I know a family who is raised by two mothers. They have encountered issues with people who think that homosexuality is wrong, but that is an issue that people, as a whole, should work on to solve. And like Sunny said, kids will be bullied for anything. It is better to try and teach them that bullying is wrong, as opposed to suppressing the rights of certain people (in this case, homosexuals).

Lastly, your point, "it would be harder to teach that to a child who has two parents of the same sex", how do you feel about children who are raised by only one parent?



-I am personally in favour of the belief that homosexuality is not something people choose, and so your idea that more people are going to start doing it is personally irrelevant for me. However, with gay marriage being accepted and more homosexual couples being married/being recognized/coming out, nothing is wrong with that. More children will be adopted, and that is not wrong.

And even if more kids are adopted and by some way the population does start to drop, the earth is already overpopulated as is. It's not exclusive to just China and India. They see it more, yes, but the earth is overpopulated as a whole. Furthermore, even if by some day lets say everybody "became" homosexual and straight couples "died out", women can get pregnant medically. Men can donate sperm and women can get pregnant that way. While some men and women are against that, not everybody is, and as such we would never truly be at risk of the population dying off even if everybody was homosexual at some point in time.



-Marriage has been defined that way for a very long time, yes. And for a very long time laws were created to go hand in hand with racism and other forms of discrimination. Laws change. The meaning of words change. The world is constantly changing and that is okay. Some changes are not always for the best, and some are. I personally think that allowing gay people to get married is a good change. I also do not think that the act of a man and a man or a woman and a woman getting married should be called something new.

Also, to your point about child bearing, how do you feel about heterosexual couples who get married and either A.) Choose to not have children or B.) Cannot conceive children because one of the two partners is incapable of it?

~Now then, I truly hope that none of this comes off as attacking you because that is not my intention at all!~

I'll make a longer response post later, bout to go do something, but don't worry, I'm not sensitive. It didn't seem to me like you were attacking me lol

 

[Iridium Winter]

Hello!
-I am personally in favour of the belief that homosexuality is not something people choose, and so your idea that more people are going to start doing it is personally irrelevant for me. However, with gay marriage being accepted and more homosexual couples being married/being recognized/coming out, nothing is wrong with that. More children will be adopted, and that is not wrong.

And even if more kids are adopted and by some way the population does start to drop, the earth is already overpopulated as is. It's not exclusive to just China and India. They see it more, yes, but the earth is overpopulated as a whole. Furthermore, even if by some day lets say everybody "became" homosexual and straight couples "died out", women can get pregnant medically. Men can donate sperm and women can get pregnant that way. While some men and women are against that, not everybody is, and as such we would never truly be at risk of the population dying off even if everybody was homosexual at some point in time.

I believe that it is a choice. And I'm not against children bein adopted, but I do believe that a heterosexual couple would be better than a homosexual one.
I was just using China and India as examples. The U.S. would be fine with a growing population. I'm not worried about straight couples "dying out", but if there were enough gay couples that the population dropped, that would be a problem. And kids bein raised by homosexual couples has already been talked about.

-Marriage has been defined that way for a very long time, yes. And for a very long time laws were created to go hand in hand with racism and other forms of discrimination. Laws change. The meaning of words change. The world is constantly changing and that is okay. Some changes are not always for the best, and some are. I personally think that allowing gay people to get married is a good change. I also do not think that the act of a man and a man or a woman and a woman getting married should be called something new.

Also, to your point about child bearing, how do you feel about heterosexual couples who get married and either A.) Choose to not have children or B.) Cannot conceive children because one of the two partners is incapable of it?

Those marriage laws since the beginning of mankind, when there wasn't racism and stuff. I agree that the world is constantly changing, but I disagree that allowing gays to get married is a good change.
Well, you can't force people to have kids, though they could reconsider down the road. For people who are incapable, I'd be fine with them adopting.

(For some reason, the response to the first part in the post above isn't showin up, so I'm puttin it here.)

-I don't understand why kids would be bullied for being adopted. I have personally met several people who were adopted, and none of them have ever been bullied for it. Furthermore, if somebody is bullying another person for being adopted, they are the ones who are in the wrong. It is nobody's fault that they are adopted. If anything, the thought of more kids being adopted should be encouraging. There is an astounding amount of children who are unfortunately not adopted and that is a much worse fate than being adopted by a homosexual couple and possibly being bullied for it.

Additionally, I know a family who is raised by two mothers. They have encountered issues with people who think that homosexuality is wrong, but that is an issue that people, as a whole, should work on to solve. And like Sunny said, kids will be bullied for anything. It is better to try and teach them that bullying is wrong, as opposed to suppressing the rights of certain people (in this case, homosexuals).

Lastly, your point, "it would be harder to teach that to a child who has two parents of the same sex", how do you feel about children who are raised by only one parent?

I don't exactly know why they're bullied, either, but they are. And I don't blame the kid for getting bullied. However, I've seen kids bein bullied for bein adopted and for bein gay and in some places, havin homosexual parents isn't out of the question for bullying a person (to the bullies). It also pretty much gives them more ammo. Supplying the enemy with ammo is not the way to win.
As I also said to Sunny, the fact is that if a kid is goin to bully somebody, they won't listen to all the education about it.
I don't like it, however, I understand that there are sometimes where the situation forces it. I was actually raised by one parent (mother), but I was lucky enough to have a grandfather who was able to teach me.

 

[Kiki]

I am confused.

Why is it okay for a straight couple to adopt or for a child to be raised by one parent, but it is wrong for a gay/lesbian couple? Let's pretend that bullying wasn't an issue for the child - what would be the problem then?

The biggest issue I could see is if they gay couple adopted a child that was not the same sex that they are. That would likely make puberty awkward, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. The couple would likely have friends or relatives of the opposite gender/same gender as the adopted child, and so they could help out. There is also school that could teach the child about it, although that defence is rather iffy.

 

[Iridium Winter]

I am confused.

Why is it okay for a straight couple to adopt or for a child to be raised by one parent, but it is wrong for a gay/lesbian couple? Let's pretend that bullying wasn't an issue for the child - what would be the problem then?

The biggest issue I could see is if they gay couple adopted a child that was not the same sex that they are. That would likely make puberty awkward, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. The couple would likely have friends or relatives of the opposite gender/same gender as the adopted child, and so they could help out. There is also school that could teach the child about it, although that defence is rather iffy.

Well, what you said and, while I was lucky enough to have a grandfather step in, not everyone is and a role model of the opposite gender of the parents is needed. Friends/Relatives (in most cases) can't be at the child's home all the time like parents are. That could create problems because the role model might not be able to be there when the child needs them most.